Storage ideas with backup protection for recorded TV

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  • June 15, 2011 at 9:18 pm #26071
    brennok

      TLDR: Looking for good storage solution for large and growing collection of recorded TV with some type of backup.

      Listening to the latest Missing Remote podcast discuss storage and RAID options, made me wonder what everyone would recommend for my storage needs.

      We currently have a WHS v1 that is just about maxed out. I have just enough free space that I can pull a drive if I need to due to a disc failure. Everytime we watch and delete something it is replaced by more recordings so I definitely need more storage. Originally I planned to build a WHS 2011 but with the loss of DE it now leaves me up in the air. The bulk of my storage needs come from recorded TV. As a result it is hit or miss on replacement if we were to lose it since we tend to keep old series around that might never see the light of day on disc. We also record more than we can watch so we always have our own on demand library to pick from.

      One thought is do I just build another Win 7 machine and use Win 7 backup to backup recordings to another internal drive. This way I could add 2 x 2TB drives initially and if or when those get full add 2 more, one for original and one for backup. The other thought is just do something along the same but with WHS 2011.

      I really don’t want to mess with Raid and currently I know we have about 3TBs worth of recordings stored on the server plus the 3TB in duplication. Of course now with HD recordings running a good size drives seem to fill up fast. If it wasn’t for the fact that some of the stuff we record like concerts, Storytellers, and Unplugged never see a DVD release we wouldn’t worry about backing up the recordings and I would just keep adding drives.

      June 16, 2011 at 1:47 pm #30329
      skirge01

        Your situation sounds very similar to my own, so I won’t repeat everything.  But, I do have over 13TB in my server, so picture your own setup, just much larger.  🙂

        I have no plans of moving to WHS 2011 because I simply don’t see any benefit to doing so.  I will most likely be moving to a regular Windows 7 installation for the server, using Macrium Reflect for PC backups and FlexRAID for some data protection of my recordings and Blu-ray rips.  I have not used Macrium or the latest version of FlexRAID, so I can’t say for certain that they’ll be exactly what I need.  But, I have used previous versions of FlexRAID (several years ago) and liked what I saw.

        If you don’t want to get that complex, I’d just add more storage (NAS, bigger case, etc) and “archive” shows that sit for a while.  You could set up some batch jobs to help automate this or, if you use SageTV, Sage Job Queue (SJQ) could do most of this, but it does have a bit of a learning curve.

        This is a situation where there are numerous opportunities and it’s a matter of figuring out which one fits your needs, your setup, and your budget.  Note that, other than the hardware I mentioned (and SageTV, of course), all programs I listed are free.  SJQ v3 is free, but SJQ v4 is not ($4.99 CAN).

        June 16, 2011 at 3:38 pm #30330
        swoon

          brennok, have you considered using something like SyncToy or similar for your situation? It has its own set of pros/cons like WHS data duplication feature, but for the need that you describe, it should be considered.

          You mention using WHS 2011 and it would be a good solution for you assuming you need the features it offers like backups for your PCs, remote access, etc. Going with WHS 2011 would allow you to retire your existing WHS and stick with a single machine to do all of your backup/server duties.

          June 16, 2011 at 9:41 pm #30331
          brennok

            [quote=swoon]

            brennok, have you considered using something like SyncToy or similar for your situation? It has its own set of pros/cons like WHS data duplication feature, but for the need that you describe, it should be considered.

            You mention using WHS 2011 and it would be a good solution for you assuming you need the features it offers like backups for your PCs, remote access, etc. Going with WHS 2011 would allow you to retire your existing WHS and stick with a single machine to do all of your backup/server duties.

            [/quote]

            Truth be told I never looked into synctoy. I keep putting everything off hoping magically extra space will appear on my server :).

            Most of WHS2011 features are overkill for me since I can keep WHS V1 for handling backups of my OS drives. I also don’t use remote access and never even got it working on V1 since my FiOS Westell router wouldn’t configure properly. Much of my playback happens on TiVos which actually copies shows from the server to the TiVo for playback so other than potentially slower transfer speeds I don’t have to worry about streaming issues some have with V1.

            I have recently started looking briefly into a NAS to see if it would just solve my dilemma like George suggests, but I haven’t made much progress. My two active Win 7 machines have space for drives, but the one is maxed currently for Sata ports so I would have to look into an expansion card which I have heard mixed results. If I went this way I would probably have to add a 4 to 3 possibly hot swappable bay since I already have 6 drives in my main machine.

            My other PC only has the OS drive so I could add I believe 4 more drives before I need an expansion. This of course brings me back to just backing up the recordings. Do I grab a Nas just to Sync/backup the 4 drives or do I use Win 7 to back up Drive D to Drive E?

            June 20, 2011 at 3:46 pm #30352
            BartMan01

              I’ve been using one of the newer Drobo S units with 5 bays and USB3/eSATA in my mix:

              Internal 1TB drive for recording; Internal 2TB drive for storage of recorded shows/protected movies;  Drobo (over the network) for unprotected shows/movies I may want to keep forever or watch directly on the machine the Drobo is connected to (no TV in that room).

              For me, performance of the Drobo over USB3 (even connected to my Mac using hacked drivers) has been stellar.  Would never try to use it as a direct recording drive though.

              June 20, 2011 at 4:13 pm #30353
              brennok

                Yeah I was looking at the Drobo site last night. It sounds like they have come a long way. I know originally people complained about how slow they were, but it is definitely something to consider. The more I read about WHS2011 the more I may rule it out. It seems to have so many backup limitations that it probably wouldn’t work for my house due to the 2tb limits. I have an older computer which I may try to install wHS2011 on it this weekend to see how it works.

                Foolish me also assumed my WHS was maxed out. I was in the console so I figured I would double check only to find I still had 2 old 300gb drives in my pool. I ordered one of the Hitachi 2TB 5k3000s on sale from Newegg this morning to upgrade one and after I confirm I am not having problems with compatability, which I have had in the past with random drives dropping out, I plan to upgrade the second one. This of course will only be a temporary band-aid.

                 

                June 20, 2011 at 6:51 pm #30357
                BartMan01

                  My Drobo is ‘formatted’ as a 16TB volume, but only 7.21 TB is in there now with 5 2GB drives (7.21 is usable space).  The downside is that any operation that will ‘use as much as available’ such as Windows Backup sees it as a 16TB drive and will be expecting it to have more space available even when full.  The good/bad of being able to resize up to the ‘formatted space’ just by adding bigger drives in the future.

                  I wasn’t expecting much from the Drobo S based on past performace numbers I had seen.  I was pleasantly surprised.  From a post I did on the drobospace forums regarding speed:

                  AJA disk test using 1GB file size.  Drobo loaded with 2TB WD Green drives and over 50% full at the time.

                  It seems the performance varies from run to run but:
                  Performance with a 1GB size:
                  First run:
                  Write = 76.7 MB/s
                  Read = 83.8 MB/s

                  Second run:
                  Write = 69.6 MB/s
                  Read = 74.7 MB/s

                  Third Run:
                  Write = 69.4 MB/s
                  Read = 76.9 MB/s

                  For some reason the first time I run the test it always gives high 70/low 80 MB/s writes, but repeated runs result in mid 60’s to high 70’s. If I shut down AJA and wait a while it is back to the higher numbers. Possibly some re-balancing/cleanup going on internally in the Drobo that slows it down.

                  After waiting a few minutes and running again:
                  Write = 79.7 MB/s
                  Read = 81.1 MB/s

                   

                   

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