Daily Frustrations when being a HTPC enthusiast

[jmallory]

I agree with the others.  I would look at the cabling and signal issues.  I have the Ceton, HVR-2250, and an HD Homerun connected to my machine and I did need to reinstall an amplifier in the basement due to the signal levels dropping as I had totally missed the fact that the Ceton splits the signal four ways and the HVR-2250 splits it two internally.  Reinstalled the amplifier and that fixed the problem.  Also, you don’t happen to run MoCA do you? 

— Jim

[Anonymous]

I read this article and nodded my head in agreement the whole time. I’ve been using (or, trying to use) Windows Media Center ever since XP Media Center Edition, and have tried, and tried, and tried over the years to get something cobbled together as stable as a tivo or STB.

I’ve tried buying systems pre-built, custom building my own, and have finally come to something that’s acceptably stable for WAF.

I now use an Intel uATX media series motherboard, core i5 cpu, 2 external ATI cablecard digital tuners, an intel SSD for the boot drive, and a samsung spinpoint drive for TV recording storage.

I’ve never been able to get the system to sleep/wake properly without a host of graphics issues, as well we the tuning adapters no longer being recognized and having to be disconnected and re-connected via USB. So I set the system to never sleep (not optimal for power usage, I know, but at least it works).

Just as the author noted, installing any new driver or plugin is a serious roll of the dice, and I try as hard as possible to keep this system clean. I have MyMovies installed, as well as Clone DVD, and Shark 007’s 32 and 64 bit codec packs, and that’s about it.

As happy as I am with this system, it’s not without issues. I get a healthy amount of pixelation via the ATI cablecard tuners. I have to re-connect the tuning adapters about 50% of the time system is rebooted.

I ordered, but don’t yet have, a Ceton cablecard tuner in the hopes it would solve some of the pixelation I see with my current setup, but after reading this, I’m thinking of canceling.

I sure wish Microsoft would evolve MCE further. It’s the best DVR experience out there. But you really have to “want” it, and know what you’re doing…

[Chasseur]

Well I do agree with everything here. I tried so many things that cost me a lot of $$$. I’m a computer programmer, so i’m not scared about trying new things. But right now, it’s not stable enough for mainstream.

I couldn’t live without my htcp setup, but will never recommend anybody to get one.

[umdivx]

[quote=”Mikinho”]
[url=http://www.missingremote.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5203&Itemid=260]Original Article Link[/url]

What type of splitter op-amp are you using?  What does your coaxial wiring diagram look like?

It sounds like you simply had too many splits or reverse path noise.
[/quote]

Here’s the coax layout in my home.

I definitely know its not a coax issue. or splitter issue.

[img width=500 height=401]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4104/5063109452_f4a93dedbd.jpg[/img]

-Josh

[umdivx]

[quote=”Meester.Rip”]
I wonder if he could go into the guide and set the source for the one bad channel to use the CETON tuner only. It didn’t sound like a signal issue, more of a driver issue or because both tuners have the ability to be shared like a netwrok device maybe there was a conflict there.

I would turn on debugging on the HDHR and send Silicondust a log. And the logs from the event viewer.
[/quote]

Thats just it, I tried doing that, but found out that BOTH the ATSC CBS feed and the Ceton Digital cable feed BOTH were recording bad pixelation/digital breakup.

Once I removed the Silicon Dust HD HR from my pc, the Ceton worked perfectly, but with the HD HR BOTH the Ceton and the HD HR didn’t work on CBS.

-Josh

[umdivx]

[quote=”captain_video”]

If anyone can be called a tuner whore it has to be me.  Besides the four Ceton tuners I also have four ATSC tuners connected to my HTPC.  However, when you consider that the tuners are shared between the HTPC and three extenders it really isn’t all that many.
[/quote]

I was running 10 tuner before my Ceton.

4 x NTSC
4 x ATSC
2 x QAM

[umdivx]

[quote=”Mikinho”]
The reason I ask about your hardware is that you have introduced [i]at least[/i] 1 additional four-way split when adding the InfiniTV4 due to the internal splitter. 

If your signal is already on the low-end but worked fine before you could run into issues.
[/quote]

See my previous post. I re-did my coax setup in my home prior to installing the Ceton.

Also the “Internal split” on the Ceton card doesn’t introduce as much loss as a passive coax splitter not even close by any means.

[Aaron Ledger]

What does the diagram look like with the HDHR and other tuners?

Does the pixelation happen constantly or periodically. If periodically, is the frequency repeatable or random and how often is the period?

Does it happen when just viewing the CBS affiliate and not recording anything else?

If it is only your CBS affiliate having the issue, have you tried powering off any wireless transmission devices as a test?

[Meester.Rip]

I would not say that is the optimal way to run the coax but with the tuners off the inital split should have enough signal. I didn’t see where you have the SD tuners in there.

Ultimately you want to run the cable co line directly into a TAP.  A tap is not a splitter, although it is sort of similar in that it provides 2 output legs from 1 input. A splitter divides the power in 2 and the power at each out leg is the same. A tap loses the rated value through the TAP leg but only a small insertion loss through the OUT leg. A DC-9, for example, loses 9dB through the TAP leg, but only ~2dB through the OUT leg. The best way to connect a cable modem would be to have the TAP leg connected to the cable modem and the OUT leg going to the TV distribution system, whether it be a splitter or an amplifier (depends on how many outlets you have).

I run my TAPs out leg into a 15db amp then into a two way splitter that feeds two 8 way splitters and I don’t have any signal issues. Even with 2 of those legs being split again into two feeds for my 2 HDHRs.

I assume you had the latest firmware from SD installed on your tuners and the latest drivers. Both from August I think.

Have you posted this on TheGreenButton also. I imagine your setup is identical to many others.

[umdivx]

[quote=”swoon”]
Josh,

You’ve got to isolate the issue. I’d start where Mikinho suggests and that is with your cabling as that is the most likely cause. Remove any unnecessary splits and terminate any unused splitter ports. Check all of your cabling. [/quote]

Already did that, I do this sort of thing for a living, so I know how RF works, how bad splitters are, and what kind of line loss/attenuation you get.

I’ve got all bran new RG6QS coax, terminations, and only two splitters in my whole setup (see attached diagram above)

I know for a fact its not a signal issue as AGAIN, CBS works 100% perfect when the HD HR is removed from the system, as the HD HR was setup for ATSC and didn’t touch my cable tv coax in any part.

So again CBS works 100% perfect with no issues when HD HR is removed from the setup, but once its hooked back up, all hell breaks loose.

-Josh

[umdivx]

[quote=”swoon”]
What does the diagram look like with the HDHR and other tuners?[/quote]

HD HR doesn’t touch my cable tv coax. It is directly connected to an antenna in my attic.

[quote]
Does the pixelation happen constantly or periodically. If periodically, is the frequency repeatable or random and how often is the period?[/quote]

both, some times happens constantly to the point the picture never comes back, or periodically. And again ONLY happens when the HD HR is installed and setup on the pc, once removed all issues with the Ceton go away.

[quote]
Does it happen when just viewing the CBS affiliate and not recording anything else?
[/quote]

only on CBS.

[quote]
If it is only your CBS affiliate having the issue, have you tried powering off any wireless transmission devices as a test?
[/quote]

I too thought it might be CBS, but again, any other ATSC tuner I put in the system, Aver Duet, Aver M780 and Vista View Sabar DA1n1. All of them work perfectly fine on ATSC.

The only conclusion I have is it may be a bad HD HR tuner, but funny thing is that the HD HR worked perfect before the Ceton.

[Meester.Rip]

As far as frustrations go it was always what I introduced to the HTPC setup that caused me the problems not necessarily the pc.

When I was running Media Center 2005 on my Tube TV it worked great for a couple years. I’ll list my issues chronologically.

I got a HDTV – This required a new setup so I upgrade my video card for HDMI – problem fixed.

Added an HDHR – Pixelation caused from cheap onboard NIC. Tinkered with properties and upgraded router to gigabit.

BluRay comes along. New build here to have a faster proc, bigger HDD for storage. Onboard video works. Board was a 690G

Surround sound – Onboard audio didn’t cut it, I tried a new ATI 4350 addin card, still an issue so I went with a dedicated sound card – problem fixed.

WHS – This addition to the setup brought networking issues back again. Upgraded to a discrete Intel NIC and the problem is solved.

I have no problem telling people they should want an HTPC. They should need to listen to me because I have been there and done that at my expense. Currently I have several friends, family andd neighbors that like my setup. But I have to figure out what they really want before I tell them what they need to buy. And if they go to Frys without me and tell me they have problems later I’ll tell them straight up I can’t help unless they take it all back and then listen to me.

There are a lot of levels of a HTPC also. From a basic Netflix box with the ability to play music and other media from the network to a full blown whole house DVR and Media server.

[Aaron Ledger]

Have you used the HDHR and Ceton diagnostic tools. HDHR has some nice tools like the command-line tool to test the tuner and tell you the cause of the error. I can provide you the instruction if you’ve never used it before.

Since you work with RF, do you have access to a spectrum analyzer to verify whether there is some sort of interference at this frequency that is seemingly caused by the HDHR?

[Meester.Rip]

Can you disable the Ceton tuner in Device manager to see if the HDHR still works fine?

Can you go into the guide settings and disable the Ceton tuner from being a source for CBS. Not in the guide from the main screen I mean the settings that you drill down into from tasks.

I would have had the same setup had Ceton had a tuner in stock when I ordered it, I just gave up and cancelled all but the basic cable. The only channels I have available to record are from two HDHRs connected to the antennae in my attic.

Do you already have a support ticket in at CETON and SD?

[umdivx]

[quote=”Meester.Rip”]
I would not say that is the optimal way to run the coax but with the tuners off the inital split should have enough signal. I didn’t see where you have the SD tuners in there.[/quote]

How is that not “optimal”? It is the lowest line loss you can get. I’ve always had issues with my cable modem behind amps and splitters so that is why i have my cable modem that way, then I figured I’d do the same with my Ceton.

Again if you read above, IF and only IF I remove my HD HR from my setup, the Ceton works 100% perfect with zero issues.

[quote]
Ultimately you want to run the cable co line directly into a TAP.  A tap is not a splitter, although it is sort of similar in that it provides 2 output legs from 1 input. A splitter divides the power in 2 and the power at each out leg is the same. A tap loses the rated value through the TAP leg but only a small insertion loss through the OUT leg. A DC-9, for example, loses 9dB through the TAP leg, but only ~2dB through the OUT leg. The best way to connect a cable modem would be to have the TAP leg connected to the cable modem and the OUT leg going to the TV distribution system, whether it be a splitter or an amplifier (depends on how many outlets you have).[/quote]

I had a TAP in my old setup, where Coax from outside came in, then into the tap and into the modem.

the setup I have now hasn’t degraded the signal or performance of the modem at all so didn’t thing anything of it.

[quote]
I assume you had the latest firmware from SD installed on your tuners and the latest drivers. Both from August I think.[/quote]

Yup on both accounts.

[quote]
Have you posted this on TheGreenButton also. I imagine your setup is identical to many others.
[/quote]

Na… not a fan of TGB. Tend to stay away from that site as much as possible.

[Author]

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