Is it even worth it?

[jbachman2]

In my continuing saga to get Dolby True HD and DTS Master Audio working on my HTPC I have finally gotten the HDFury2 installed and working.  It was amazing, if you get one that actually works it’s pretty easy to setup.  So yesterday I installed my XFX-ATI 5550 video card back into my HTPC and guess what?  It worked too, it was really a thing of beauty to behold …for about 30 minutes.  What happened at that point was I started playing Blu-Rays so that I could figure out how to enable Dolby True HD and DTS Master Audio because by default, the sound was coming over via HDMI to my Onyko TX SR-608 but only as Dolby Digital and DTS. 

I fiddled with the settings on the receiver for about 30 minutes with no success when I got the bright idea that maybe the Catalyst drivers for the video card needed to be updated and my even brighter idea to do this via Windows instead of actually going to the ATI site and downloading a new one.

This is where the story takes a horrible turn.  The system reboots after presumably installing a new driver and then nothing, zilch, nada.  No display whatsoever.  The system will only boot into safe mode and Catalyst won’t start up and the video card was not listed under System.  To make things worse, I then find horror stories all over the ATI forum where people have tried upgrading their driver only to have it screw up the works with Catalyst not starting up.  I tried a couple of fixes that I found online all to no avail.  Catalyst won’t start up or if it does I get something along the lines of “no ATI video card detected”.  I had to reinstall my GeForce 9400 GT to get back to basically where I was before. 

So, the question is thus, is it really worth it to go from Dolby Digital and DTS to Dolby True HD and DTS Master Audio?  As of right now this whole endeavor is driving me nuts.

[Andrew Van Til]

How much of a difference will depend on the title and your equipment.  I’ve done some comparisons and for most movies the lossless track does sound better.

It shouldn’t be that much of a hassle to get it setup.  In your case, you probably need to uninstall the display driver while in safe mode then use the latest (10.10) from game.amd.com. 

What OS are you running?

[flips]

I too fought with this a long time until I figured out I needed windows 7.  I installed that and I was up and running in 30 minutes or so…

[jbachman2]

I had seen an post where someone said they had to unistall my GeForce Drivers prior to installing the Catalyst drivers so I thought I would give that a go.  Is Windows 7 a must to get this going?  I’d prefer to stick with Vista if at all possible just because I don’t want to redo the whole HTPC (again).

[autoboy]

You can’t have an HD audio conversation without me.  “Is it worth it?”The best way I can answer you is: 

[b]It’s not worth it, unless you think it is.[/b]

In my tests I can’t tell a difference on a Onkyo 875 and Axiom Audio m60, vp100, qs8 system.  My speakers are revealing of problems with the audio, and I can’t tell any quality difference whatsoever.  And I did these tests using the same encode of the audio, switching between the core track and the HD track on both DTS and DD.  Double blind tests by experts in treated listening rooms have also shown that we can’t tell a difference.  If you can’t repeat it when you are trying to hear it, then there’s no chance of hearing it when you are absorbed in a movie.  Remember that the DD and DTS tracks on BDs use the full bitrate of DD and DTS (640k and 1.5mb respectively) which were chosen because they were the point at which no difference could be heard.  That’s the explanation to the first part of my answer.

Now, if you think you will be able to hear a difference because it is “lossless”  or you’ve tried switching between two audio tracks on a BD and heard a difference, then it is worth it to get HD audio working.  Those that have heard a difference are because different tracks are from different masters and typically have some quality and more often loudness differences.  Others simply fall to the placebo effect.  This is totally fine.  If you are in this camp and think you are getting better audio because it is lossless then that’s great. You’re thinking you are getting better audio and that is going a long way towards enjoying the movie and your system that you spent so much money trying to get. 

So, what kind of person are you?   Are you a results kind of guy?  Or are you a ideological kinda guy?

I’m a results kinda guy.  I rip to the lossy formats and don’t look back.  But, if given the choice, I do like it when I see the HD audio logo on my receiver.  It makes me feel good even though I know it doesn’t change anything.

[Mast3rL33]

I have seen noticeable improvement in audio quality even through my analog output. I suspect, had I more capable hardware, I would see even better performance.

I should say that yes you should only have one set of video drivers installed at once. I dont know that Win 7 is absolutely needed, but it may make some things easier.

Best of luck sir. And may the audio gods smile upon you.

[autoboy]

[quote=”Mast3rL33″]
I have seen noticeable improvement in audio quality even through my analog output. I suspect, had I more capable hardware, I would see even better performance.
[/quote]

That’s great.  I’ve got some awesome speaker cables for sale if you are interested.  Only $2600 a pair.  They make a world of difference in transient response on female vocals.  ;D

[Andrew Van Til]

[quote=”autoboy”]
In my tests I can’t tell a difference on a Onkyo 875 and Axiom Audio m60, vp100, qs8 system.  My speakers are revealing of problems with the audio, and I can’t tell any quality difference whatsoever.  And I did these tests using the same encode of the audio, switching between the core track and the HD track on both DTS and DD. 
[/quote]

Are creating a new lossly version from the lossless track or comparing the stock core stream against the lossless one?

[autoboy]

[quote=”babgvant”]
Are creating a new lossly version from the lossless track or comparing the stock core stream against the lossless one?
[/quote]

I’m comparing the core track to the lossless track.  With DTS the core is actually part of the lossless.  With Dolby True HD the lossy track is a separate track.  I compared both by switching between the HDMI port and the Toslink port on the receiver.  The player output over both at the same time and I just needed to switch inputs.  Video was by component and HDMI which also output at the same time.

[Andrew Van Til]

[quote=”autoboy”]
I’m comparing the core track to the lossless track.  With DTS the core is actually part of the lossless.   With Dolby True HD the lossy track is a separate track. 
[/quote]

That is somewhat dependent on how you define track, but that’s a different topic…

[quote=”autoboy”]
I compared both by switching between the HDMI port and the Toslink port on the receiver.  The player output over both at the same time and I just needed to switch inputs.  Video was by component and HDMI which also output at the same time.
[/quote]

I’ve never tried to replicate that scenario so I can’t speak to it directly, but with PC players (like PDVD) you can select the bit streaming mode over HDMI and I have to disagree with your results. 

Also, with many newer releases including 7.1 lossless tracks I’m pretty sure the lossly track is limited to 6.1 channels but is usually 5.1.

[jbachman2]

I guess I will uninstall both the GeForce & Catalyst drivers, clear out all the ATI references in the GAC and then clear the ATI listings out of the registry before trying to reinstall the Catalyst again.  Is there a topic or a website that lists the steps for enabling HD Audio in TMT3 or in Catalyst?  That was the root issue that caused me to try to upgrade the driver.  After everything was setup and working I didn’t know what to do next.  TMT3 had a setting under Audio, something like “use primary audio” which I assumed would be the HD feed but like I said, the Onyko display only listed DD or DTS.

[autoboy]

You need to go into the audio settings in windows, select the HDMI audio properties, and set the output to support HD audio.  The properties will list the supported output formats.  You check the ones you have.  Then you can set the TMT correctly. That’s how I did it, but I was just going for DD and DTS since my 3450 doesn’t support HD audio output.

BTW, am I the only one on this site that CAN’T hear a difference in HD audio?  Am I going deaf or something?  Cause I can pick out things pretty quickly.  I was at my Father in laws and I could instantly tell that his front right speaker was missing the tweeter.  Hitting it on the top of the speaker solved it.  At least temporarily.  I have no idea if my “fix” is still working.  He didn’t seem to mind it was missing.

[mikinho]

When configuring TMT3 be aware that the settings available vary depending how you launch it.  The settings for the normal GUI and the “Media Center” GUI (uMCEDVDPlayer.exe) are different.

If you are using Media Center (or any other launcher for uMCEDVDPlayer.exe) you need to launch TMT3 when there is non disc in the drive and from launcher (i.e. not from Windows Start Menu) to properly configure any settings.

[Andrew Van Til]

[quote=”jbachman2″]
I guess I will uninstall both the GeForce & Catalyst drivers, clear out all the ATI references in the GAC and then clear the ATI listings out of the registry before trying to reinstall the Catalyst again.  Is there a topic or a website that lists the steps for enabling HD Audio in TMT3 or in Catalyst?  That was the root issue that caused me to try to upgrade the driver.  After everything was setup and working I didn’t know what to do next.  TMT3 had a setting under Audio, something like “use primary audio” which I assumed would be the HD feed but like I said, the Onyko display only listed DD or DTS.
[/quote]

It’s possible that you might need to do an EDID [url=http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1227161]override[/url] with the Onyko.

[Mast3rL33]

[quote=”autoboy”]
[quote=”Mast3rL33″]
I have seen noticeable improvement in audio quality even through my analog output. I suspect, had I more capable hardware, I would see even better performance.
[/quote]

That’s great.  I’ve got some awesome speaker cables for sale if you are interested.  Only $2600 a pair.  They make a world of difference in transient response on female vocals.  ;D
[/quote]

Funny I bought something like that a few weeks ago, and some ‘magic’ beans the gentleman had for sale too. He gave them to me for a great price.  😉

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