Tuning Adapter Problem with Media Center – Losing Channels Periodically

[dhwinner]

I am wondering if anyone else has experienced this same problem….

Periodically many channels will get an error saying that this channel has moved or is not available in Media Center. These are the same messages I received prior to getting my Tuning Adapter. I discovered if I re-run the wizard are re-setup my channel guide it will fix this problem and I will get all of my channels. Obviously this is a hassle because then I will have to go through and re-customize my guide settings every time.

I have called my cable operator and had them change my adapter once already, and check my signals. All of that is good. And basically tech support for the cable companies and non-existent anyway (They are certainly clueless about the HTPC world)

At this point I am convinced it is something in Media Center, its the same channels every time. I am wondering if anyone else has experienced this problem and what have they done about it?

Details:

Cable Operator – Time Warner, LA County, East San Fernando Valley

HTPC – Custom Build, Gigabyte Mobo, Intel i5 Graphics, Win7 Prof, Ceton PCIe 

[johnw248]

TWC operates both a Moto and Cisco headends in the Los Angeles area, so a little more information is necessary:

1. Cisco or Moto equipment

2. Tuner type

The few times I have seen a relocation its been related to a new config file coming down but those are reflected in the channel table. Perhaps you’re having a problem with the USB link from the TA, but not knowing the host of the TA, its all speculation.

Running Cisco on two machines with Ceton tuners, I don’t have that problem in West Valley.

 

[dhwinner]

I didn’t realize there were different Tuner Adapters.

Mine is a Motorola MTR700.

Thanks

 

David

[johnw248]

Well I don’t have the diagnostic map for the Moto unit, but the first thing I would check is if it is downloading new channel maps. In the Cisco unit here’s a sample page:

SERIAL LINK ANOMALIES

 

CHANNEL TABLE HISTORY
Rsp/Upd/Err/Rtx: 22/41/0/0
09/09@03:00:38 Upd v039 Blks=06
09/10@03:00:40 Upd v040 Blks=06
09/10@11:10:27 Rsp v040 Blks=06
09/11@03:00:38 Upd v041 Blks=06

And check the USB Connection:

SERIAL LINK PROTOCOL
InitTime: 08/04@10:17:55
ProtoVer/RxWinSz: 1/4
FirmwareVer: 1.10
UsbDeviceState: Configured
LastUsbResetTime: 09/10@11:10:06

the other thing that might help is going into your power settings and making sure the USB connection isn’t turned off or allowed to go to sleep.

This is if you’re running a Ceton card, if you have a SD Prime there can be other issues that they are still dealing with in FW updates.

[dhwinner]

Thanks for the info, but the only thing in your response that I can answer to is about my power settings. I have my HTPC set up to go to sleep after an hour of non-use, and I also have the Media Center Stand By Tool installed. However, the Tuning Adapter is always on. 

I feel that I am a pretty good windows troubleshooter, but I am not familiar with getting the channel table History, and how to check the USB connection.

Any guidance to check these items would be greatly appreciated.

and I am using a Ceton PCIe.

[johnw248]

I don’t have a Moto TA (although I hear there is alot about them on the Tivo forums) but here’s how to get to the diagnostics.

Open the Ceton Web Interface 192.168.200.1 and click on the tuning resolver. About in the middle will be a link to the diagnostic map in the Moto, right click that and open it. Now the problem is Cisco and Moto have decided to speak different languages and put things in different places so you’ll have to go through it all and find the channel table download, the TA authorization, configuration file date and download, etc. The relocation message in my experience happens after TW decides to move stuff around which requires a new configuration file and a new channel map. They download a new channel map everyday at 3AM which has the location of where everything is going to be for the next day.

Double check your USB power settings which are different from your sleep setting, go into power setting, and whatever combination you need to do to get to advanced and find the usb connections and choose never. That will keep the usb link live to the computer so that it’ll be live for a request from the Ceton. The Ceton (I think) gets a request from Media Center and then looks to its channel map and if it isn’t there it asks the TA which first checks its Mini Carousel to see if the program is already on the node, if not it requests the program and if it gets a positive it then tells the tuner which then tunes to the channel and the cableCARD decrypts. All this takes some time and sometimes it isn’t fast enough for Media Center which will then put up a No Video message but will try the next tuner and will likely have success on that attempt.

I have no idea why Cisco calls the current node operation the mini-carousel and I don’t know what Moto calls it but the operations will be similar.

But all this has been pretty stable for me for several months with a few hits of no video and recording on the next tuner–but that’s a timing issue between the TA and the cableCARD.

When you find the diagnostic map (or whatever the links are called) please post the menu so we can see what it looks like on the Moto.

Here’s the Cisco link:

DIAGNOSTICS NAVIGATION MAP
Status Summary  Status and boot time and current time
POST and Boot Results
Versions and MACs  Your FW version and mac address
Network and Tuning Status
RF Statistics Your RF connections
PowerKEY Information
QPSK SIL Information
Bootloader Information
SAM Information
SARA Information
Component Information
SAM EDCT Information
SWITCHED DIGITAL VIDEO Your TA IP address in here
SDV MINI CAROUSEL
SDV SESSION INFO A
SDV SESSION INFO B
SDV SESSION INFO C
Tuning Resolver  Configuration file date here
UDCP Your Ceton Card here
Serial Link Protocol  USB Connection here
Serial Link Anomalies  Channel Tables Here

[dhwinner]

First and foremost, thanks for taking the time to reply with such detailed information. Its really great to have people help in such a manner.

As I started to follow your instructions, I quickly realized that my Ceton drivers and firmware were out of date. So I quickly took care of that.

As for the USP power setting I that was already disabled.

Now in terms of finding the diagnostic map, in the web interface the only thing I am finding Diagnostic Menu. I have look through each item and not finding what your looking for but I am listing each menu item and each respective contents.

GENERAL STATUS

Platform ID: 0x0160
Family ID: 0x001c
Model ID: 0x02bc

UNIT ADDRESS:
000-00489-39096-211

NETWORK ADDRESS:
000-00000-00001-026

DOWNSTREAM STATUS

OOB FREQ: 75.250 MHz
CARRIER LOCK: YES
SNR 24 dB GOOD
DATA: YES
HUNT MODE: NONE

INBAND FREQ: 561.000 MHz QAM256
CARRIER LOCK: YES
SNR 36 dB GOOD

CODE MODULES

PLATFORM VERSION: 01.35
PLATFORM BUILT: Nov 12 2009 15:19:41
OBJECT VERSION STATUS ID

UPSTREAM MODEM

STATUS: ENABLED_IDLE
FREQUENCY: 14.432 MHz
REQ LEVEL: 050 dBmV
ACTUAL LEVEL: 051 dBmV

INTERACTIVE INFO

IP ADDRESS:010.168.084.040
MODEM ADDRESS:1687237
UPSTEAM ID:0x3B66
DOWNSTREAM ID:0x05E3
STATE:RUNNING
MAC ABORT CNTR:0000

SOCKET PORT STATE:
01 READY
02 UNUSED
03 UNUSED
04 UNUSED

SWITCHED DIGITAL VIDEO STATUS

STATUS: Active
PRI SVR: 172.022.128.161:8849
SEC SVR: 000.000.000.000:0
DSC SVR: 172.022.128.152:1025
MODE: TSID
MOT EXT: CACHE SIZE=0
CONFIG: VER: 241 QAMS: 2
CHANNELS: Sw-0
CAROUSEL: VER: 32 CNT: 0
LAST ERR: 00/00/00 00:00:00
LAST ERR CODE: NONE
SERVICE GROUP: 2422
OOB CONFIG MSG: 0 MIN, ACTIVE CHAN LIST MSG: 0 MIN

FAULT REPORT

nil

WARNING REPORT

09/01/11 08:34:39 HAL:
OOB Lost Lock
08/06/11 13:16:13 HAL:
OOB Lost Lock
07/31/11 03:57:45 HAL:
OOB Lost Lock
No Date/Time, SDVComm:
PSOC did not initialize!
04/30/11 20:21:47 HAL:
OOB Lost Lock
No Date/Time, SDVComm:
PSOC did not initialize!

(I think these dates may coincide when I had problems)

Not sure if this helps. I am hoping that running the updates will help sstabilizethe problem. I just recently re-configured my guide, so I will be checking channels periodically to see if the problem reoccurs.

 

[johnw248]

Your loss of OOB signal is probably your problem. It’s the 74.250 mHz control signal that delivers the channel tables and authorizations for the TA (and the cableCARD uses the same thing for its OOB lock so you can check that on your cableCARD tab in the Ceton web interface.

Just looking at this, I’d call TW and have them come out and check signal strength. That your most likely cause of the OOB lock error. It might be on the edge and drops off from time to time. Remember that no cable system has either a flat response from dc to 1000 mHz and that the signal level will vary over time. You can check signal level on a few channels in the web interface by clicking on each tuner when it’s in use. You should try and get a signal level +/- 7 dBmV although TW thinks that +/- 10dBmV is good enough. But considering your issue they might just put an amp in the line. Let them do it for two reasons: A) they don’t charge for it and B) they’ll spec it for the right levels down and up. (The amps aren’t adjustable but they come in several versions).

With any luck, if you’ve had issue with pixelation on some channels, that should clear up as well.

OOB FREQ: 75.250 MHz
CARRIER LOCK: YES
SNR 24 dB GOOD Really not as good as your channel below. Should be 30+
DATA: YES
HUNT MODE: NONE

INBAND FREQ: 561.000 MHz QAM256
CARRIER LOCK: YES
SNR 36 dB GOOD  Yes good

 

John

[randyh360]

Hi David,

Did you ever solve this problem? The same thing is happening to me.

Thanks,
Randy 

[dhwinner]

Hi Randy,

I meant to follow up on this post but, so thanks for asking.

Currently my problem is fixed, however, it is not permanent. I am not an expert on the inner working of this mojo, but I am fairly convinced this problem is related to signal strength. And let me state that all of these problems started after the TA was installed. So is it windows?, or is it the TA?

I did follow the recommendation that was given to me, and I have had a Time Warner Tech come out to my place twice since, and honestly the end results have been the same. Both different techs tested my lines, both times my signal strength was well above the suggested minimum. The first tech took a splitter out of my line back from the box and a ran a more direct connection, and he even changed my TA. On the second visit, the tech discovered that the signal coming out of the TA was degraded. Apparently the first tech ran the input signal through the TA and then looped out to my HTPC, the second tech split the line right before the TA, so one line is directly in to the TA, and the other is directly in to the HT PC. Both said adding a DA will not help. 

Since the last visit, I had the channel outages briefly, but the have been all coming of late. I am convinced and resigned to the fact the the signal coming from TWC is always fluctuating, and I am completely powerless over it.  What I do now is every month I call Customer Service and complain, and get a certain number of days reduced from my bill. And honestly that is getting tiresome as well. My bill is so minimum, that its not worth my time anymore. I guess my time is more valuable, but I am a stickler on principle, so I will probably just keep calling.

If and when this happens to me again, I am planning on having a tech come out again, and insist on a DA, regardless of what they say. We all know all of their tech are just contractors and most of them have never seen a MCE HTPC setup. I always end up giving them a quick tour of the awesomeness. And they get so impressed….such tools, but in the end very helpfull.

At this point all I can share is my experience. I hope it helps you, as I have been helped by the many members of these forums who take time to help us.

David

[randyh360]

Thanks for the quick reply! I actually suspected a signal strength issue at first since my signal on the problematic channels was at around -6db. Unfortunately, I added a 10db signal amplifier and it hasn’t made any difference. It’s really frustrating since it’s always the same channels and there doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason. My current hypothesis is that my system is simply hosed. Everything was working great for about two weeks except that I couldn’t get the PlayReady update to install. It only affected a couple of channels so I wasn’t too worried about it at first. A day or two after I finally got PlayReady installed is when some other previously working channels stopped working. I tried a lot of stuff before it finally installed, so I probably messed something else up along the way. I’m going to first try wiping out my Media Center configuration. If that doesn’t work I’m going to try a fresh install. I haven’t rebuilt the system since Windows 7 came out so it’s probably about due now anyway. I’ll let you know if I have any success.

Thanks,
Randy 

[dhwinner]

Do you know about the new version of MCE 7 Reset Tool Box…

http://www.madeformediacenter.com/m4mc/app.aspx?id=02ccfdb0-0355-470e-96d4-639594d80e7b

Might want to give that a try before doing a whole fresh install.  But if your HTPC is dedicated like mine is, its easy to do a fresh install. Dont have all of the everyday stuff to reconfigure.

However, the channel thing with TWC, is absulutley mind boggeling, and like I said, I have given up on it. It comes and goes. 

Keep me posted!

 

DAvid

[dhwinner]

I have an update to this nagging problem.

Once again for the last month my channels have been missing, so I decided to call again and deal with Time Warner so I can get some service credits off of my bill.

Once again a tech came out and verified that my signal was good (Using a line amp would not help), and there isn’t much to do, because there aren’t any parts. I suggested a new TA and or a New M-Card. In the back of my mind again, I am thinking that this might be a windows problem.

Anyway to spare all of the little details, the tech was on the phone with the mother ship, and for some reason the data number (number associated with the TA for activation) had changed, so they re-registered the TA, that didn’t work, but then they had me simply re-seat the Cable card. Low and behold all the channels came back instantly.

So I guess the moral of the story is that next time this happens, along with reseting the TA, I will re seat the Cable card, and maybe thats all there is to it.

[dhwinner]

This time not only do I have an update to this nagging problem, but a real solution!!!!!!!

After my last post, not surprising that the channels when missing again.  After my whole troubleshoot experience with the Time warner tech, I noticed in the “devices” tab in the Ceton diagnostics utility that there was an error with the tunning adapter. I was getting a red indicator with the error “not enough tunning adapter attached”… After I reseated the card etc., it went to a green check. Good!

So when the channels went out again, I checked in the devices tab and the Same error existed. This time I submitted a error report to Ceton, and was rewarded with the solution….

We’re very sorry you’ve run into difficulties — and thank you for sending the diagnostic, it definitely helps.  In it, we can see that the TA is completely unresponsive.  When it’s plugged into the computer, it should be present and responding, even if the InfiniTV isn’t installed — so it’s likely either something with the TA, its connection to the computer, or the computer itself.  It’s almost certainly nothing to do with the signal.

You mention swapping out TAs; have you also swapped out the USB cable connecting the TA to the computer?  We’ve seen some cases in which the USB cable was the culprit, so if you can try a different cable that’s ideal.  We also advise swapping USB ports to see if things work on a different USB port.  Finally, let’s get you on our most up-to-date driver package, which can be found at the below link:

http://cetoncorp.com/infinitv_support/

You want the Ceton InfiniTV Installer download link.  Simply install that over the current drivers, and it will update the tuning adapter service and drivers as well.  Please let us know if any of this helps, and if not, collect and attach an updated diagnostic; our newer drivers improve the diagnostic capture as well.

Thank you,
Ceton Support

I used a new USB cable with capacitors, and moved it from the USB 3 to a USB 2 slot. Updated the driver package, And now I am in MCE bliss!!!! Fixed, once and for all!!

[Aaron Ledger]

That’s great. I am glad you got it sorted out. TAs are a real pain. I recently moved from a Cox area with TA to a Comcast area without TA and guess which area is a better experience…

[Author]

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