SpacemanSpiff2000

[SpacemanSpiff2000]

[quote=santanan]

Although I’ve been in the IT tech field for 20 yrs, I’m new to the Media Enthusiast arena, but in my adventure …

[/quote]

Hmm. That describes me, too. Thought we had more in common. As I said, the best overall approach idea so far came from you (if not the technicals for “best” perf required). Oh, well.

My apologies for not being as far along or on the same adventure as you, or not coming from similar areas of IT, or that my questions do not conform to your way of thinking (or whatever has offended your sensibilities). This is a discussion, which has been interesting and informative until now. What is now clear is that you are not patient enough to assist a fellow Media Enthusiast noob. Someone who is would have simply linked or pointed out where a given question is already answered. If we are of similar age, I would have expected a similar level of maturity.

[SpacemanSpiff2000]

Thanks to everyone again. This is interesting to watch and learn.

Further clarifications:

VD = Virtual Disk? No one else is talking “VD” here (or elsewhere in my reading), so I’m curious how this comes into play.

Wants: I do know what I want … in the end (see OP). Just trying to figure out how best to get there. The best advice so far here may be to start small but expandable and build from there. This is not my 1st build (it’s my 3rd, but I also have a 20 yr history in IT and I am new to the entertainment media party).

Off-the-shelf: I am a bit resistant b/c I’ve kinda “been there done that” with a WD WorldBook w/ 2x1TB disks (RAID1) that I filled. Wanted to upgrade to 2x2TB Samsung disks in-hand. WD only allowed it to recognize WD HDDs … until I hacked the Linux down to reading the code myself and found/commented out the 1 line where it detected the WD drives (and told it all HDDs were WD), AND figured out how to keep the mirrored drive from overwriting the hack. That (+ the 1TB copying) only took 3 weeks of my life around Christmas of doing little else. Never again. So, I’m a bit wary, but still will look @ ReadyNAS.

Performance: I’m not looking for “best” performance but “good enough” performance. P1 files (fault tolerant) are written overnight (don’t care about speed) and are only read if files are lost or for local sharing (don’t care again). P2 is all about serving movies, so I need the performance to serve a ripped Bluray w/ 5.1 sound at full speed with 0 lag and 0 dropped frames … a little more is a buffer … any more than that is overkill.

Performance Q: So what performance is good enough to serve BRs over the network? Or what will give me that performance?

If it matters, the network will be at least wireless-N (when I upgrade the router), up to gigabit later (when I figure out how to run cable from the office in my basement, horizontally thru a half-bath and along an external wall to the family room, which is also in my fully-finished basement … worst case scenario there). Thanks once again!

[SpacemanSpiff2000]

You all have been very helpful so far and I appreciate it. You’ve offered some pre-made solutions, some OS and hardware suggestions, and explained some concepts I may use, etc.  I will consider it all.

But I have a gap at this point that I want to fill by returning to the main priorities:

[quote=SpacemanSpiff2000]

P1) backup key files: Quicken/Office docs, scanned file cabinet backup, irreplaceable pictures/camcorder videos

musts: redundant/fault tolerant, easy disaster recov; speed is secondary

P2) serve entertainment to my HTPC

P2-a) recorded content (recording off the DVR or direct from TV, so prob 1080i max)

musts: plays well; fault tolerance is a nice to have (some are hard to re-obtain)

P2-b) ripped DVDs and BluRays

musts: plays well; fault tolerance is unnecessary

[/quote]

The area of help I’m looking for in this follow-up are things like:

Would you setup different RAIDs for the above 3 functions? I’ll make this up: like a RAID5 for P1, a separate RAID3 for P2a, and a RAID0 for P2b? Because P1 simply cannot be risked, P2a needs to be faster but shouldn’t be lost, and P2b just needs to be fast? And I still mean all in the same box here.

Would anyone actually do that or is that just crazy talk? If crazy=yes, then what? Would keeping you critical backups on the same fault-tolerant RAID as your networked BluRay content impede either function in some way? Or does it really not matter at all and they can be all in one?

Also, I’ve read about some ripping methods but most are for movie-only. I’m looking for whole disc (so I don’t have to go find the discs to see extras I want). How might that affect my specs here?

I’m trying to visualize an appropriate architecture at this stage, so I know what I’m shopping for.

[SpacemanSpiff2000]

And just to throw another option out there for you, have you considered Windows Home Server 2011? Yes, it would mean paying MS, but the price is now only $50-$60 and it can offer a lot more functionality such as taking care of your backup strategy, housing an InfiniTV (which I know you’re looking to get) to share amongst multiple HTPCs, file server duties, remote access to all your PCs, audio and video serving and transcoding on the fly when you are away from home, etc.

I’m still considering, yes. Does that make things like the above (that I want) so much easier than a free option?

Also, I never considered putting the Ceton in the NAS, so far away from the TV, but (as it happens) a lot closer to the router. I just assumed it had to be in my HTPC right by the TV. Any other considerations to account for there?

Though if it does what my HTPC now does, that makes me feel like it negates the $700 I just spent on the HTPC, reducing it to an extender and disc player, and I should have just bought a standalone Bluray player. 🙁

[SpacemanSpiff2000]

[quote=mikinho]

1- What type of video content do you primary haveplan to have?

I’m asking the Core i3-2100 will do a better job of transcoding content assuming QuickSync supports it.

In general, you don’t want o build a NAS for power.  An ideal NAS does three things very well in my opinion.  It is 1) Stable 2) Efficient 3) Flexible

[/quote]

1) Good points. Will have to lookup QuickSync.

I envision the video content being my ripped DVDs (and Blurays, as I accumulate them), direct DVR’d recordings from TV (think Ceton, later), PVR recordings from my present DVR and camcorders … can’t think of more (or what’s possible). FYI, I’ll probably want it to serve music, too … when I get an AVR and speakers.

I guess I should clarify “transcoding” … does that mean just making files smaller and/or cutting commercials? I’m not sure what else is possible in this realm, so I’m not really sure how to use this word yet.

And I’m surprised the hear the 2100 does so well … but is that still true while it’s recording other stuff? If I’m going to go for any automated transcoding, I just figured it should be on another box, and this NAS should be the only other box in the house that no one is trying to sit in front of and actually use … or I’ll have to build ANOTHER box (this $1K HDTV is getting expensive).

[quote=mikinho]

2- Are you tied down toe Linux or would you be open to FreeBSD solutions as well?

[/quote]

I am open to anything right now. I just suggested Linux b/c I figured that’s the common, user supported, home-use Unix now. It just has to serve the HTPC with WMC somehow. (I figure anything will take a backup from my other XP & Win7 PCs.)

[quote=mikinho]

3- Did you want suggestions for off-the-shelf products like the Synology, Netgair and Drobo?

[/quote]

Have not researched these. Please refer to my recent post. If someone thinks that’s better and can fulfill all the needs in the OP. (e.g., office/home backup, serve the HTPC, transcode?, easy disk pulls for offsite storage/disaster recovery/hot-swapping?)

[quote=mikinho]

4- If you do go DIY, do you have any existing hardware you would be re-using?

[/quote]

Just a bunch of old PATA disks, so probably not (unless I can reuse them vs. chucking them). I’ve got those 2x 2TBs in my current WD NAS, but they will be needed to initially load this new NAS. Would love to use some old cases, too, vs. chucking.  I used to be all about rebuilding with old parts until the tech starting leaping too fast.

I suppose I could also retire my wife’s Pentium E2160 PC (and spec her a new build), if that would work. She would like that. :^{D

[quote=mikinho]

If I was doing a DIY NAS I would go w/ an Intel Atom D525 board that had dual Intel NICs for teaming.  To be specific the Supermicro X7SPA-HF-D525.  Low poer, 4GB RAM, good SATA controller, 6x SATA ports, IPMI (huge IMHO) and extremely important to me dual Intel NICs.  I use this board for my routers and a backup NAS.

[/quote]

Thank you so much for the specific recommendation. I can look into those things and perhaps other similars (never heard of IPMI … will look).

[SpacemanSpiff2000]

[quote=santanan]

How much is your budget?  Are you looking to purchase a NAS that already has most, if not all, of the functions you want? Or, are you looking to build a NAS?

[/quote]

[quote=santanan]

How much is your budget?  Are you looking to purchase a NAS that already has most, if not all, of the functions you want? Or, are you looking to build a NAS?

[/quote]Sorry … other issues. So much data. I’ll take these 1 at a time.

Budget: I expected that question. Answer: Whatever it takes without overkill … just basic fiscal responsibility. I know that’s hard for some people to wrap their head around … until you look at it from a 100% noob POV who has nothing to base a gut-feel upon. I need a basic ballpark.

e.g., I never knew that my budget for an HTPC was ~$700 until I analyzed a lot of build specs, found/read a good guide or 2, read a lot about each part, and basically took weeks to spec a build that should do what I wanted without overkill for the best prices I could find … then have people make recommendations from that, I made changes, repriced … and after all that, the prices came to the high $600s. So that was my budget. That final product (which must work with the NAS) is here:  http://www.missingremote.com/forums/quick-anything-wrong-my-1st-htpc-build#comment-36694

I’m in a similar position again. I’ve done some initial reading and need more of an experienced opinion and concept direction to start out. Like, I don’t know if I need hardware RAID, firmware RAID, software RAID, etc.  Basically, I’d like to save the weeks of self-torture this time and see if someone can help me narrow the 1000s of directions and millions of pages/posts that I don’t have time to read into some common, tried/true, current concepts and selections. Then I can research those things.

And “roll my own” above refers to my wanting to build it … but that’s just so I don’t risk running into limitations like the ones I had simply upgrading a WD WorldBookII with non-WD drives. But if someone has experience with an “almost” system, and can adjust it without many limitations, and can articular how that’s better, I’m certainly listening.

[SpacemanSpiff2000]

I see. Thanks. My assertion on the ShowBiz formats were based on the Capture > Format Settings screen where the Aspect Ratio only provides choices for 480i and 480p. I guess the other formats are automatic? I’m also capturing from a STB for now.

I guess that makes it true that there is only one WinTV output format. Maybe it’s just less technically informative via the Capture “Best” to “Fair” choices (plus the 3rd party decoders make no sense to me if one can only record to one format).

I agree that the playback of results is fine. Just trying to use the software I have/know vs. ArcSoft for trimming/splicing.  I have the same problems with M2TS files from ArcSoft in Vegas … which makes me suspect the Hauppauge s/w because Vegas works just fine with the MTS files from a Canon Vixia and the MOV files from a Canon PowerShot and iPod Touch.

I’ll keep looking and hoping for more info. Thanks!

[SpacemanSpiff2000]

Thumbs-up on the click-thru. Had I known/thought about it, I would have done it. I’d be very happy to help you guys out b/c y’all helped me out so much here and on understanding this branch of tech (better than anywhere else … I have you props elsewhere). Also, I never would have considered an Intel mobo before … but reading here tells me I may have saved myself some trouble.

To polish this off, here’s what the final order ended up being:

case: SILVERSTONE Grandia GD05B micro-ATX
CPU: Intel Core i3-2100 Sandy Bridge 3.1GHz
mobo: Intel BOXDH67GDB3 LGA 1155 Intel H67
LAN: Rosewill RNX-N180PCe PCI Express Revision 1.1 Wireless Adapter
RAM: G.SKILL NS 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600)
PSU: Antec EarthWatts Green EA-380D
OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit [ not $80 🙁 ]
$485 shipped from Newegg (before $75 Christmas gift card … thanks, Dad!)

Bluray: Lite-On 4X SATA Blu-ray ROM Drive IHOS104-06
capture: Hauppauge Colossus PCI Express Internal HD-PVR 01414
$192 shipped (free) from Amazon

Have 2x HDD: Western Digital 1TB EADS (originally from my WD NAS before upgrading) – $0

Total: $677 pending remote choice/s (we all want universal/fewest remotes), Bluray s/w, and future Ceton still pending decisions.  Now it’s a race to Maryland. Newegg 3-day looks like it may get here tomorrow. Amazon supersaver ship MIGHT even get here Saturday (but I can start without those parts).

Plan is to see how all this works before considering an upgrade to SSD or a video card, etc. I’ve read somewhere how to partition the OS drive to get the quickest possible response. Since this is my first time w/ Win7 or MCE, I don’t mind having to reinstall later b/c I usually screw up something the first time anyway.

Thanks again for all of your QUICK and thorough assistance! :^{D

[SpacemanSpiff2000]

Why, oh why did I order last night! 

I’d buy & send it back but the restock and return ship practically negates it.

Hope they don’t spend my extra $20 all in one place.

:^{D

[SpacemanSpiff2000]

Shoot … I ordered ~30min before you sent. Darn it all to heck.

Oh, I did my pricing research (Amazon and anything else Invisible Hand uses) but Amazon was the same and the rest were more … I got 2 pieces from Amazon due to shipping.

However, I only knew I’d ever casually heard of FatWallet after you said it. Plus, I’d never seen an endorsement for them, so trust would have been an issue had I remembered them.  But I’ll take this as an endorsement to trust them now.  Thanks! – Spiff :^{D

[SpacemanSpiff2000]

About the Bluray player software (even though I have maybe 3 waiting Bluray discs and the rest or DVD for now): I don’t suppose there’s a decent freeware option, since I haven’t seen it mentioned? (vs. adding $100 to the total cost)

[SpacemanSpiff2000]

[quote=swoon]

• If the Colossus is only a temporary item in your HTPC, you could still get the ML03 it seems and use an extension cable since the chassis has a full-size slot. Just double check the dimensions.
• You could save a few bucks and get the i3-2100 instead of 2100T. You shouldn’t have many concerns with cooling and it should still be very efficient with power in real-world use.
• Chosen memory will be just fine
• Looks like the Lite-on drive will come with OEM PDVD software. I’m sure it will not support 3D BD playback. You could go with PDVD 11 (review) and CyberLink will probably sell it to you at some reduced upgrade price. You could also go with ArcSoft TMT5 (review) or Corel WinDVD even. My personal preference is TMT5. Each vendor gives a trial copy so you can give them a try yourself before spending the cash.
• I think something like this remote might suit you much better. The one you linked doesn’t seem like the typical ehome remote

While you could probably get away with the single hard drive, I do not recommend it. You will be much better off with a second hard drive to house the operating system separate from the recording drive, especially since your current drive is a Green drive. If you could swing the extra money for an SSD to store the OS, that would be ideal (though it is totally not required and is a luxury item).

In a PC, everything is scaled to the output resolution.

You don’t have to run the box 24/7. It can go to standby when not in use and will wake automatically when it is time to record.

[/quote]

Still can’t kill the full quotes.

Well, I could not pull off an order by noon ET today, so my target is now tonight.

[quote=swoon]

• If the Colossus is only a temporary item in your HTPC, you could still get the ML03 it seems and use an extension cable since the chassis has a full-size slot. Just double check the dimensions.

 

[/quote]

I may still go with the bigger case for roominess/airflow, but it’s good to know this slimmer case might still work. However, with the 03, I thought it ALL had to be low profile, plus I don’t get how this extension would figure in. I read this case has a “utility” slot that implies non-low-profile, but I can’t see that from the case pics. Also, I haven’t been able to find specific card dimensions from Hauppauge. What am I missing?

[quote=swoon]

 

• You could save a few bucks and get the i3-2100 instead of 2100T. You shouldn’t have many concerns with cooling and it should still be very efficient with power in real-world use.

[/quote]

This was the key question that stopped me today. Is there knowledge out there regarding:

• what is the real energy cost savings between these two?
• what can a 2100 do in an HTPC that a 2100T would not be able to do?

Also, was just thinking, what if may I, occasionally, want to play CIV5 on the big screen. This wasn’t an original intention, but would this CPU/GPU do it?

[quote=swoon]

• Chosen memory will be just fine
• Looks like the Lite-on drive will come with OEM PDVD software. I’m sure it will not support 3D BD playback. You could go with PDVD 11 (review) and CyberLink will probably sell it to you at some reduced upgrade price. You could also go with ArcSoft TMT5 (review) or Corel WinDVD even. My personal preference is TMT5. Each vendor gives a trial copy so you can give them a try yourself before spending the cash.

 

[/quote]

Thanks! I’ll have to look into these then … or perhaps another drive with a better software offer?
[quote=swoon]

 

• I think something like this remote might suit you much better. The one you linked doesn’t seem like the typical ehome remote

 

[/quote]

 

Oops, this is the link from TMT5 so I don’t know what you mean. I’m also puzzled b/c my spec looked like an authentic MC remote to me.

[quote=swoon]

While you could probably get away with the single hard drive, I do not recommend it. You will be much better off with a second hard drive to house the operating system separate from the recording drive, especially since your current drive is a Green drive. If you could swing the extra money for an SSD to store the OS, that would be ideal (though it is totally not required and is a luxury item).

 

[/quote]

Why esp. b/c it’s Green? That matters b/c my other available drive is the exact same kind … so I can do 2 of the same WD green drive right now. Will think about the SSD expense also … but how can it be ideal and unnecessary? What would I have to put up with without one?

[quote=swoon]

 

In a PC, everything is scaled to the output resolution.

You don’t have to run the box 24/7. It can go to standby when not in use and will wake automatically when it is time to record.

[/quote]

I thought I’d heard/read that. Thanks for the confirmation!

And I think “case fans” was the only other question. Never had to do aftermarket ones (or really even manage the fans I run now).

I can fudge everything else (go with the big case, hold off on a remote, use 2 green drives) but if someone only has time to answer only one topic, I need the CPU questions answered the most (and the soonest). Thanks!

:^{D

[SpacemanSpiff2000]

Perfect! Thanks!

[SpacemanSpiff2000]

[quote=jrandeck]

[quote=SpacemanSpiff2000]

Phase 1: I need either a Colossus 1414 or a 1212 PVR (in case I want the PVR to be more mobile).  I was going to pull the trigger on the 1212, but everyone except Hauppauge is out of stock right now and the eBay market is getting pricier. So I’m thinking 1414 also due to price (even though the 1414 seems to get few, and sometimes convincingly bad, user reviews on Amazon & Newegg).

…

While Netflixing is a great idea that hadn’t hit me yet, my #1 is actually >1yr of cooking shows (in SD) my wife & I use for reference … not on Netflix.  DVR has done a great job of filling up with non-repeats. We used to collect them on 6hr VHS and catalog what was where, but obviously doing the same thing digitally makes it a whole lot easier, and then I can start collecting them slowly in HD (but I’d rather have them at all first).

And my #2 is actually home made movies on VHS-C from when my 14 & 11 yrs old were ~2yrs old (from a 1995 RCA “small wonder” CC612, which is larger than my DSLR and my Canon Vixia put together).  No choice there; the time on both will be worth it to me. But for anything Netflixable, I totally get it; thx for the idea.

[/quote]

 

One point that just occurred to me that should probably be made regarding your #1 & #2 use cases is that if the content is standard definition (VHS tapes and your cooking shows) then the Hauppauge 1212 or 1414 might be overkill.

  If you have a lot of HD shows on your current DVR that you want to move off, then great, go ahead with that, but if you have mostly SD and don’t need the HD stuff to remain in HD, then an SD capture card or analog (NTSC) TV tuner card with an S-Video input (or composite if that’s all your STB has) could get the job done for less money.  I’ve converted VHS Tapes by setting up a manual recording and using the S-Video input on my ATI tuner card in the past, but I’d imagine that a dedicated capture device would have software that’s a little easier to set up and use for that scenario.

Other than cost, the other thing to consider is that the 1212 or 1414 might give you smaller files for a given quality since they use a more advanced codec than the SD cards (at least the ones I’ve used which had mpeg-2 encoders.)

Hopefully, this won’t confuse the issue, but it might be a valid option. 

[/quote]

[quote=jrandeck]

One point that just occurred to me that should probably be made regarding your #1 & #2 use cases is that if the content is standard definition (VHS tapes and your cooking shows) then the Hauppauge 1212 or 1414 might be overkill.

  If you have a lot of HD shows on your current DVR that you want to move off, then great, go ahead with that, but if you have mostly SD and don’t need the HD stuff to remain in HD, then an SD capture card or analog (NTSC) TV tuner card with an S-Video input (or composite if that’s all your STB has) could get the job done for less money.  I’ve converted VHS Tapes by setting up a manual recording and using the S-Video input on my ATI tuner card in the past, but I’d imagine that a dedicated capture device would have software that’s a little easier to set up and use for that scenario.

Other than cost, the other thing to consider is that the 1212 or 1414 might give you smaller files for a given quality since they use a more advanced codec than the SD cards (at least the ones I’ve used which had mpeg-2 encoders.)

Hopefully, this won’t confuse the issue, but it might be a valid option.

[/quote]

Now that is a great point. Being new to all this, I have only researched the non-tuning PVRs and not the tuner cards and have no clue; a quick look at the Hauppauge website shows ~15 tuners and I don’t know where to begin … and that’s just 1 company.

But maybe I can shortcut it with this question. I’m not up on codecs and file formats. What are the best file formats for this stuff today? I take it from above that mpeg-2 is older.  If the 1414 does make this smaller by doing some work for me, I have little time and am already running out of space (due to my HD camcorder and a 18mo old), so that might be worth it. But I would need to know what file formats to look for.

Sacrificing a PVR also begs these questions: If I get the Ceton sooner than later, when I record the HD versions of the cooking shows to my HTPC, could there be issues with moving/using them? Something that could also be solved by re-recording via PVR?  I also figure if I don’t get a Ceton sooner (and this answer might influence that), if I start re-obtaining the cooking shows in HD on the DVR, I’ll need the PVR for those also.

P.S. – I’m having multiple problems with this site, at least over Chrome. The fonts have gone wonky size-wise before (I started the one over before posting it) and now, even though I delete my quote and jrandeck’s quote above, it insists on appearing as Spiff(old)-JR-JR(repeated)-Spiff(new).

[SpacemanSpiff2000]

P.S. – A reach out to Facebook also led me to a few knowledgable friends and to articles like this one, which also helped:

http://lifehacker.com/5632722/how-to-pick-the-right-tv-tuner-for-your-diy-dvr

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